442. - Sofia Prantera

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week, Jason. Does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on YouTube. How long gone? The sun is out. Los Angeles, California. Them jeans. Chris Black. It's a morning. podcast since our guest is is in the uk um how are you feeling jason have you had time to kind of get your day going get your brain firing have your um coffee with butter in it uh no bulletproof i did have coffee um i'm feeling actually pretty good i think everyone has sort of been like sick like just just kind of like sick for the last two months you know and i think i'm starting to come out of that a little bit uh i did uh, pour up a nice cup full of broth just a second ago to warm my spirits. Okay. So I, I, yesterday, um, on a, on a how long gone off day, uh, because we love the medium so much, we did get together to record an episode of our, our friend Pia's podcast. Everything is the best, uh, which, which airs over at the, um, pay to play deer media network. And we did this in our normal spot at Jason's house. And I walked in and it just, the smell of broth, of stock, of dead chicken. Carcass. It hit me like a wall of fucking bricks. I got to tell you what. And it was.

The pack was distractingly loud, I would say. Is that how you would just – were you adding – is there additional fragrant ingredients that I'm maybe not aware of that we're adding? There are a lot of aromatics in play, of course, but nothing too abnormal. The way I like to make my stock, it's just the standard stuff. Celery, carrots, garlic, onion, maybe a bay leaf. a little some peppercorns things like that uh a parmesan cheese rind is another popular one to add some richness and body to it but a lot of a lot of people will add other things that make it a little too powerful in my opinion like ginger and lemongrass and things like that and it can make you know it's just too strong so i like to add i make a simple I have a simple plan with my broth and I stick to it. And then if I want to make it funky, I'll do that in post. So the broth is done. Then I can add whatever. things that Rene Redzepi has been working on that show up on my doorstep. Add some fermented reindeer penis or whatever to add an extra flair. Whichever one of his interns spent four months learning how to pickle reindeer penis only. For an unpaid opportunity. It's a lot of exposure to pickling. I walked in and I, of course, complained about the smell and Jason was like, Watch this. When Pia walks in, she's going to say how great this smells. And that is exactly what happened. And then she was asking you about your broth. And then, unfortunately for me, you did take the lid off. And then the smell got even more fragrant. And that's when I had to leave because I started to feel a little nauseous. Bro, I'm so sorry. Yeah, I mean, it really is a tale of two podcasters, a tale of two creators. Broth is a very divisive. Fluid, isn't it? It's been that. No, it is. And now that the sun's out, even though there's a little chill in the air, it's going to be 70 degrees today in LA. I hope that that stock has simmered enough that you can put it in storage in one of your little plastic cups in the refrigerator and that smell is hidden. Because I also feel like, and I don't mean to have sympathy for animals, but it seems like that maybe that smell being so fragrant and delicious.

for carnivores, that could make those doggos a little crazy. You ever thought about that? No, no, I'm aware of it. They go hog wild at the smell of boiling bones. They love bones. But yeah, it's basically Bonnaroo for them every time I boil up a new pot. Okay, this is a Kendrick Lamar headlining set at Bonnaroo level of excitement for Margo and Bean. I wanted to... also discuss a tweet I saw this morning. And this feels like something that could be made up. I find it linguistically fascinating that even in the Zoom era, we still call the networking meetings where you're getting to know someone digital coffees, even though we both are literally sitting in our homes without coffee. And I wanted to ask you. Jason – Never heard it called digital coffee before. Exactly. Okay. I just wanted to make sure that this lie is called out here because I don't think – that digital coffee does feel like something that could be floating around the LinkedIn universe. I'm not going to say it doesn't exist. I am going to say that I haven't heard it. It's one of my favorite burial songs of digital coffee. I had a feeling. I had a feeling. Okay, so this is ripped from the white label 12-inch. That doesn't seem like a term that anyone has... I just feel like that's something you and I would have come across at this point. At the very least, we would have mocked it, satirized it, or made fun of it because it's such a funny thing to say. Yeah, I mean, those are people who are tweeting in their own little silo. And if you are the type of person where somebody sends you a Slack message or whatever, a signal... saying we should get a digital coffee sometime those people do exist in the world luckily we just don't have to interact with them it's it's crazy because i feel like we do um and we know a lot of founders yeah don't get don't get it twisted we know a lot of founders yeah i just feel like we interact with the best and the worst you know but this this particular type of worst i i do think

exist outside of our purview, and that's a blessing for us. Yeah, it's not like when somebody tweets about how their nine-month-old made a comment about Nancy Pelosi or whatever it is, where you're like, okay, I don't think your infant wrote that tweet or said that to you over your morning coffee. I think you may have written that yourself. I think that digital coffee really does exist, and people do say those words, but like I said, I'll be thanking Allah this afternoon, sharing my gratitude for not having to hear those with my own words, my own ears. Yeah, it was just one of those things that I was surprised by. But I also wanted to talk about, I went through something yesterday that, as you know, was kind of hard for me, and I shared it with you personally, but I thought it would be kind of important to share it with the audience as well. It's cool that you're brave enough. I mean, I don't like to backslide in my life. I kind of always like to keep a forward momentum, as you know. And due to some circumstances outside of my control, I did – oh, man. I had to rejoin Equinox. When you say had to, was it a gun? Was it a knife? How did the whole thing go down? It's just – sometimes I think about economics and I shrug them off. and I spend based on my heart. But in this case, this is actually a decision. I spend with my heart, vote with my dollar. Exactly. This is actually an instance where this will benefit my wallet, save me money versus doing berries seven times a week. But it's more about my programming, and I cannot get thrown off of the run I'm on right now, no pun intended, with what Hunter and I have been working on. So instead of throwing caution to the wind and spending a fortune on berries daily, I've decided to make an adult decision, rejoin the Equinox family, and follow a program that Hunter is going to write for me. Amen. So we're all kind of going through it, and you're no different. The way that they've banned gas ovens in New York and what that's doing to you and Alison Roman, think about what I'm going – I want you to see me.

suffering as well yeah because people think people think it's so easy you know it's no big deal life is good you podcast ha ha ha but there are there are struggles and things that go with this and having to read download the equinox app and start from scratch i wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy so you had to see some of the worst text one could read on their mobile device which is member since 2023 that is exactly yes exactly that is exactly what hit yeah it hits so so far below the belt but i'm looking at this as a mature decision and i kind of think that sharing this with not only you but but our our listeners um who who we love and respect i i'm sure i'll receive a lot of support from the community um in this in this trying time hopefully dasha has reached out as a fellow equinox sympathizer yeah yeah exactly uh but the but the um you know i know they have the equipment i need to continue to see the gains i'm looking for in 2023 and that has to be my north star sorry to cut you off does this mean now that you might take advantage of some of their other amenities um you know ie A sauna, perhaps? You're asking if I'm going to get jerked off by men in the sauna. Right now, the answer is no, but anything's possible. I don't know how it's going to go. It's going to throw me into such a warp being in that environment, smelling the eucalyptus, seeing the finance guys. It's such a New York experience at Equinox. I can't say. Also, before we bring our guests on, I wanted to say that we appeared on another podcast i think we talked about it but um straight straightio lab stradio lab yes um where it's basically the gay versions of us or we're the straight versions of them whatever it may be but we appeared on there a few days ago and you guys should go listen to it it's a funny episode but the uh the theme of that was loosely was home improvement you pick a subject that straight people that's right are very in tune with no tim allen this is the act of this is the actual yeah we're not talking about the beloved sitcom from the 90s uh and and the theme was home improvement and then you know i just recently saw the paris review has a new segment on their publication about home improvements

And I'm really wondering, you know, how much further will the lines be drawn? I'm sorry. How much further will the lines be blurred between, you know, top literary media and then, you know, my blue collar life and influence on the rest of the world? Again, I who knows? I mean, it's the Paris review will never want me. To write for them, but they will pluck my ideas and use them for whatever evil that they're doing over there. No, it's true. It's like they're mining you for content. There's obviously no financial retribution to be paid. It's exploitation is what it is. As we say in my world, in the hip-hop community, TJ makes Paris Review takes. That's right. That's on God. We do have a guest today. We're going all the way to London, but she hails from Italy. Our name is Sofia Prantera. Bravo. an italian designer she had a brand called uh silas that i remember pretty well is it silas or see less i think it's sila i don't know we're gonna find out i've never heard it said uh but she also helms now aries which you i'm sure you've seen so we're gonna we're gonna chat with her about i mean you know look she was at central saint martin's in in the 90s so i can only imagine uh the shit that she has seen and done um and i you know i love talking to an og yeah and we're both fans of Ares as well. In a world of streetwear where it's almost 99% horseshit, they're one of the streetwear brands that is actually cool and interesting and doing fun stuff. A lot of unisex styles blurring the lines between masculinity and streetwear. I'm excited to find out who some of Chris's favorite hotties are who have been spotted in some no problemo sweatsuits. Okay, yeah, we could definitely figure that out. All right, let's chat with Sophia. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Squarespace. Obviously, Jason, you and I spend a lot of time on the World Wide Web, sort of our peers, our listeners, our friends, our colleagues, maybe even your parents if they're freaky. And if you're doing anything in the world,

writing, taking pictures. I do topless boxing. You need a website. Exactly. A website that works, that does what it's supposed to do, that allows you to be creative but also business-minded. Jason, there's one place to go for that, Squarespace. Yeah, Chris, I'm over here. I'm modifying calculators and putting Claude inside of them so you could cheat at school. And I just want a place where I could have everything all in one place. I can have the SEO tools. So those future graduates can find me and, you know, I'm able to accept, quote unquote, donations for my services that might be gray area. You know what I mean? And then email campaigns. Hey, I got a new, you know, 2.3 version upgrade. Boom, boom, boom. Get the analytics going. Raise some money. You know, show your investor all of your cool analytics of what's going on. They're going to want to get in early and we can use Blueprint AI to make your website look as professional. as your competition, if not more. So head to squarespace.com slash howlong for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code howlong to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Quince. Jason, the temps are warming up. It's getting hot out there. Summer always changes how I get dressed. I need pieces that feel lighter, more breathable. And they're just easy but still put together. I don't want to look like a slob. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high-quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Breathable linen and soft organic cottons. Well-made basics but without the luxury markups. That rare balance where everything feels elevated. but still effortless. Yeah, Chris, linen season is here. I wore a linen blazer to dinner a few nights ago in the warm California sun. But, you know, you got that Italy trip coming up this summer and quality European linen pants and shirts. Upgrade that look starting at just $34. You know, if you get a nice linen suit, a little t-shirt underneath it, some chill shoes, you're looking good, but you're staying cool. The inside of your special areas are nice and dry as you turn up with your besties. So elevate that summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash how long for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns, even on a nice holiday now available in Canada.

That is Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash how long. That'll get you free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince punto com slash how long. Oh, this is huge for me personally. This episode of How I'm Gone is brought to you by TaskRabbit. Oh, baby, let me tell you something. This is not a joke. I use TaskRabbit a lot. because I can't do anything. You need some art hung? TaskRabbit. You need something put together? A cabinet? Got to reach that cheese grater on the top shelf? TaskRabbit. Anything you need, TaskRabbit can take care of it for you. How it works, TaskRabbit connects you with skilled taskers in your area. They can help you move. They can assemble furniture. repairs, yard work, mounting, and more. You can search for a Tasker based on cost, skill set, availability, and past client reviews so you know exactly who's showing up and can have confidence that they know what they're doing because Taskers have assembled over 3.4 million pieces of furniture, completed 700,000 home repairs, handled 1.5 million moves, and the numbers are just going up, Jason. Yeah, throw a little money at the problem. It's not so expensive, and that job that you really don't want to do is something that another person out in the world, is very good at doing and would gladly do it in exchange for a little bit of money. So when life happens, your to-do list grows. Get ahead of it now and get $15 off your first task at TaskRabbit.com or grab the TaskRabbit app. using promo code howlong. Taskers book up faster, especially for same-day tasks. So book Trusted Home Help today. That is $15 off your first task using promo code howlong with the TaskRabbit app or at TaskRabbit.com. Honestly, Sophia, yeah, this is, I'm really happy that worked out because we've... done shit like that countless times, and it does not work out. Often. I would say more often than not. The difference is we're doing it with a professional musician who should know better, but somehow can't use AirPods. With a really bad fashion designer, I hope you can just say it to the musician next time. Actually, there was a fashion designer who did it very quickly. We had this really bad fashion designer do it in five seconds, so you have no excuse.

Literally worst fashion designer ever did it very quickly. Yeah, we'll make sure to lay that out for them. Are you in London? I'm in London, yeah. I'm in my house in London. So you said this is the garden? What were you calling this room that you're in? Sunroom? This is the garden room. We don't know because basically in lockdown, I know you guys started in lockdown, in lockdown we... Sorry, can you hear my dog? Is it better if the dog gets out? No, no, it's fine. Your dog's fine, yeah. He's fighting a Tory at the moment. So in lockdown, I have two kids and a dog, and I think we're really tight, so my husband built this room in the garden. You can see it. You might be able to see the house. Oh, wow. Okay. So this is an ADU. In California, we call these an ADU, an additional dwelling unit. It's an additional dwelling unit. Sophia, can we see the permits that you pulled for that just to make sure it's all on the up and up? I did. I did. I got a permit. Wow. Okay. Wow. That's even more impressive. Yeah. They knew that people would ask for a long time to try and find somewhere to work. And because my son does music, it's soundproof. So it's actually really good. I was going to say, it looks soundproof. Yeah, it's soundproof. What kind of music is your son making? Well, he keeps it quite secret. But he's into, I guess, grime and rap and all that kind of stuff. How old is he? He was 19 last week. Okay, so he's 19. So, yeah, and he doesn't really use it. So he's a 19-year-old. Got it. So he's 19. His parents are cool. He's been raised by cool parents, and he's making beats, is what you're saying. Yeah, he makes beats, exactly. Well, he doesn't think that you're cool, but the world does. He doesn't think his parents are cool at all. He wasn't 19 in lockdown. He was more like 16, I guess.

Yeah, does beats. And he actually does a lot of music for us too, but begrudgingly then. You're saying you forced him under duress to make music for Aries when you need it? I do, yes. Okay. You're like, all right, we got to make a new TikTok, so can you give me a beat, Sonny Boy? Exactly. But it's really difficult with music because you have to have rights to music, which, you know, I think at the beginning when you start a brand. you can get away with just ripping anything off and then you get to a point where people just start getting pissed off so I think the music thing is the hardest because visually we can do anything but actually music wise I don't really know how to do it and obviously it's a pro in logic so you know and kids can do it like literally two minutes what I think will take probably seven hours takes two minutes So, yeah, so I force him and you dress. Okay, that's good. So it's kind of like if you don't give me this beat by noon, maybe there's not going to be any food on the table. You don't get any food. Okay. Yeah, exactly. No lunch for you. So do his friends ever hit him up to get free clothes from you guys? Oh, my God. They all model for us. That's kind of like it's gone from like being, I think my career has gone from being my friends to, you know, younger friends. And then now it's like. My kids and my kids' friends. And, yes, I think we have them around all the time. We're quite an easy household with lots of people hanging out. That's great. Yeah, that's very cool. So since all of your friends are grandpas and grannies now, so it's not a great demographic for your street. Yeah, it doesn't look quite the same. Although, you know, I get told off all the time and say, you should have more older women in your look books. But, yeah, no, it's easier to use the kids. but we had a we had a party the other day we had like we we have these like quite amazing parties in london and we have like a really amazing like breath of ages like breath did you say breath i'm sorry i'm italian by the way so if my english sounds a bit weird i'm sorry so you said you're on valium so it might up your english

I said I'm Italian. Oh. My bad. I literally thought you were like, sorry, I'm on Valium. It might fuck up my English. And I was like, damn, okay. Go off, Sophia. Damn. So my English might be slightly slurred. No, I'm Italian. I don't know if you know I'm Italian. Of course, we know you're Italian. We can read. So my English sometimes is not up to scratch. It's okay. But anyway, we do tend to have these parties that sort of everyone, the age, the variety of ages is very, very, yeah, they're like weddings. Runs the gamut. But they're really fun. We are known in London for having the best parties. Oh, wow, okay. And I think now it's like, yeah. It goes Sophia and then Fabric is as far as parties go. Yeah, exactly. I didn't know that. Fabric doesn't give you three drinks, though. Yeah, that's a good point. All right, so if Jason and I were lucky enough to get invited. Yeah. to one of the parties at your household. No, not in my house. You do it at a club or an art gallery or something? No, we like organized events, for at least. So it's not my own party. O2 Arena or something like that, some of the local venues? Yeah, more like art galleries or event spaces. We're about to open a store, so it's going to be there next time, I think. Yeah, that's why I want an event space so I can throw parties and not have to worry about my personal belongings, you know, getting damaged. Yeah, it's good. Jason's a pretty big party animal, and sometimes he gets a little wild, so you've got to watch it. Go into your medicine cabinet. Good luck. The volume is going to be gone. You'll have to call your pharmacist and get a re-up. You'll have to call your local boot and get a re-up. You'll have to ring the chemist if I come around the flat. And you don't want your teenage children to go into your medicine cabinet. That's not good. Yeah, exactly. Well, you were mentioning that your parties run the gamut in terms of...

Diversity of age. Diversity in general, I think. Diversity in general. Diversity in general, yeah, yeah. Well, you, I mean, and you and your brands that you've worked with over the years have always been, you know, very kind of unisex. A lot of, you know, clothing can be for male and female and it's kind of a genderless thing. Do you think, are old people the next? step on that journey? My parents wear the Aries head to toe. They're actually here visiting me at the moment, and they literally come down with Aries head to toe, and they're pushing 80. Well, if it's one thing Italians like, it's free streetwear. Yeah, actually, Sophia, while we have you, can you explain? We talked about this a lot, because Jason and I love to complain about going to Italy. When we're in Italy, why do you see an 80-year-old man wearing bootleg Pyrex? What part of the Italian... And you're laughing because you've seen it with your own eyes. Yeah, why does it... I know, yeah. I didn't realize it was bootleg. Isn't it an Italian brand? I thought it was an Italian brand, and they didn't really understand. Well, it's not even a real brand. No, it is a real brand. Well, it was. It was a real brand, but, like, okay, well, let's use a different example. Your dad pulls up in the off-white sweatsuit, and you're kind of like... what the fuck, dad? Like, why does that happen? Why does that happen in Italy and not in anywhere else in the world? And I'd like to think that the grandparents or the nonas who are wearing Heron Preston bomber jackets are just like, what? They're like, I'm just, this is a shirt. I'm just wearing clothes. What are you talking about? Like, I don't even understand. They take, they cut the obvious brand, you know? Oh, they de-badge. Yeah, they de-badge. I love the idea of walking into your Nona's house, and she's got all the pots are on, and she's got the Heron Preston sweatsuit on, just getting busy in the Yeezys. I have really cool parents. I have to say, I'm quite proud of my parents. My mom is in there doing a podcast about vampires at the moment. She's pretty amazing. Wait, what? Yes.

What do you mean? So podcasting is a family business over there right now is what it sounds like. It's a family business. Well, my first one, but not her. Okay, hold on. Hold on. Does she hosts a podcast about vampires or she's a guest? So she's a writer. She's writing. Okay. She's writing about vampires and she's recording. Wow. What an amazing moment where you're like, oh, sorry, guys. Like, I just need an hour, peace and quiet. I'm going to record this podcast. And your mom's like, you, me. Yeah. She's trying to get my sister to do one of the voices as we speak. So, yeah. I mean, I have quite a tentative family. Yeah, I can tell. I mean, no, but I think that this. We talk about this a lot on How Long Gone because Jason and I both have loving families, but they're not cool by any stretch of the imagination. But in some ways, I guess that's fine because they kind of let us do our thing and let our freak flags fly, and we figured it out. But did your parents, like... Did they let you do whatever you want, kind of, and you figure it out early? Or were they trying to make you cool? No, no. So my mom's cool. My dad's quite straight. So I think I had both. Yeah. I had both things in my life. So my dad's a doctor. So it's quite straight. He's Italian. My mother's English. And he is, you know, he's quite conventional. So I think we had both things in our lives where, you know, we weren't pushed to be. you know, to be extrovert at all, actually, the opposite. But we were pushed towards the arts, I guess. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, no, we're also quite straight in Italian and kind of like those quite boring Italian that we'll wear, like, you know, cashmere jumper and some jeans. Nothing wrong with that. Like that kind of back then. Pariolini. If you know the Pariolini. Cashmere jumper and jeans is actually my go-to look, so I can relate on that. I can relate on that. The dog wants to come back in. Sorry.

I don't know if I should... Is that really annoying if he goes in and out? No, we don't even know. We don't care. It's fine. Oh, you don't know. Okay. Does your dog have a cool name like Brunello? Well, my dog's gender fluid. He has a girl's name and he's a boy. He's called Nina. Okay. Sorry. I mean, I should... Is they, them? They're called Nina. No. Do they have a cool name? Yeah. He's a boy. I don't know how he identifies that, but he's called Nina. That was a joke from the kids. Again, a pandemic joke. Nina apparently is short for a gun, a 9mm gun, and they thought it would be really fun. to have but he's stuck with his very silly name which i'm sure i mean that's how all good names happen you know where our podcast is just like yeah let's just use that name until we come up with a better name and then a year goes by and you're like i feel like you have a very chaotic household you know i feel like there's a lot going on i feel like it's yeah um Are you doing a lot of cooking? Who handles the cooking in the household? Well, I like cooking, so I do cook. But actually less. I mean, work's really full on at the moment, so less. And then the kids are obviously a bit older, so they can kind of do it themselves. But I like cooking. I come from, like, my Italian family is one of those families. That, you know, everyone's cooking all day, every day. And then you have lunch and, you know, everyone's talking about what they're going to have for dinner. And, you know, I'm sure you've experienced it. Yeah, yeah. Just food. Seems to be the only way of communicating. I'm not really a big food guy, but I think that lunch is kind of crazy, you know, because eating lunch kind of takes the wind out of my sails, you know. No matter how many espressos I have, I can't regain the vigor after having a meal midday. Yeah, can you give us some tips after you have a big bowl of tortelloni for lunch and you want to take a nap?

but you still have to approve some line sheets or whatever? What do you do? Yeah, these tech packs aren't going to get done. So I tend to not have a big lunch, but when I go to eat with Italians, they do have a big lunch, and the secret is that they just have a couple of hours off. Okay, so you're saying the key is to take a three-hour nap and then kind of pick back up around four. You put your legs up on the Missoni couch, take a little nap, and then back to work you go. Even put your pajamas back on if you're in the right place. Oh, I like, you know, because my dad is a big napper, and he used to have a nice couch in his office, and he removed the couch. Because he was like, I got to stop napping. And then he began to just nap laying on the floor. So it wasn't, the comfort wasn't even the, it was just the, he just could not keep his eyes open. He needed to nap so badly. Yeah, it just didn't, he'll lay on concrete. It's dire. But I think once you hit a certain age, you know, the nap kind of becomes unavoidable. And it ends up hurting you. It's like when people don't get enough sleep, it's not really helping anybody out, you know? I think maybe it is of another generation. I think it's like, you know, I don't think it's kind of acceptable anymore. But people in Italy do it, but not everyone. But it used to be, when I was young, it used to be a thing where you'd go and your granddad's got back in his pajamas and his boyfriend went to sleep. And then you couldn't even, like, we used to go and stay with my grandmother in the summer. And when they were having a nap, you couldn't make any noise. It was insane. And you're like, it's two o'clock in the afternoon. They had a big Italian family, lots and lots of kids. We were all forced to go around on our tiptoes. That's pretty good. How was your summer? It was great. I had to be quiet for three hours every afternoon. It was amazing. We did a lot of silent raves. Just silent raves. Yeah, I wish they existed there.

How often do you go back to the motherland now, at least once a year? Well, no, way more, because I also work there. All our production is there, so I'm really close to my parents, so I do try and go back at least three or four times a year, but probably more often than that, even. Do they live in the city? Yeah, so they're in Rome. Okay. Oh, wow, nice. We just did a project in Rome. I was able to go back a lot, which was really fun. Bravo. Yeah, I love Milan, and I get killed for that by my fellow Americans, because they're like, what is there to like about Milan? I love Milan. I knew you did, and that's why I just guessed, because you're a real one. So I think people are just like... Sophia, why do you think people dislike Milan? I don't know. I really like it. It used to be... She's like, I never heard that. Yeah, no. be more dislikeable. I think Milan, it used to be hard on Milan, but now it's such an easy city and it's really fun. I agree. I like the looseness of it, the fact that you can just go out and then you'll end up in lots of different places and people are friendly. I don't know, I really enjoy it. And then I have a lot of friends there. I just feel like it's the most comparable to New York, the same reason I love London. It feels like business is getting done, which... We know, no offense to you and your people, but you guys aren't, you know, you're not really like business forward. So it's nice. In Milan, it feels like people are actually going to work, you know, whereas maybe in some other places it doesn't quite come across. No, Rome is like, it's insane. I mean, I went back, because we did this collaboration with the Roma Football Club, I actually spent a lot of time there, which I haven't as a grown-up. I was just shocked on how actually lawless it is. Lawless meaning you got stuck up for your bape Rolex or lawless like? It's more like just there's no rules. People park everywhere. I don't know. It's just mental. And we went to the seaside a lot, which I've never done before. If you ever go to Rome, it's incredible.

Yeah, it's a lot more unstructured. The city polices itself. Or not. Or the Vatican polices the city, I guess. Or the Vatican. From the world. The Vatican's kind of the omniscient, all-knowing being. I think that's higher than the police at that point. The Vatican City 6 rental car. That's my favorite location, probably. Yeah, Jason's had some great times in Rome. It's not a thing. It's not a thing. Oh, well, I'm getting married in Italy this summer, and my fiancé made me reserve the rental car, you know, like 11 months in advance. It's already been mapped out. And don't worry. Sophia, don't worry. There's a spreadsheet. Don't worry. Sophia, don't worry. Don't worry, neither Jason or his fiancée are Italian or have any ties to Italy. They just really like it. What are you doing in Rome? Are you getting married in Rome? No, we're getting married in Tuscany, but we're going to kind of have a honeymoon where we drive all over. We go to Rome, we go to Bologna, we go to... Lake Como. Nice. We end up in Milan and then fly home. Yeah, don't drive in Rome. No, no, no. It's bad. He's a great driver, but even I wouldn't advise that. I mean, I drove a lot in Rome, and you get used to it after a while, but at first, I don't know, I get excited driving in a city that's terrible to drive in. I love driving in San Francisco. You have to be an offensive driver or else. Yeah, I think you have to, like, especially if you're, like, I drive in England a lot, and when I go to Italy, you kind of have to change your mindset. Oh, yeah. It's like, I'm going to be really, really horrible to everyone. Because otherwise, when my husband drives, we're all, like, stuck in some, like, you know, in an exit thing for, like, an hour. This is too polite. Yeah, you can't do that. But also, like, in America, I live in Los Angeles, and if you drive around and somebody cuts you off, and you give them the finger, there's a 50% chance you're going to die. But in Italy, you'll cut somebody off, and a 90-year-old grandma is doing the hands. It's just a part of the life and the culture, and nobody's going to kill anyone. I think it's really strange, because we work with Italy a lot, and obviously my team, there was a few Italians, but we're in London.

You know, only the Italians can deal with the Italian factories, for example. There's such a high level of misunderstanding going on because English people have got one way of thinking in Italian. And it's really hard. Sometimes I'm like, you guys have to put this into context. You have to understand what's going on there. And, you know, there's such different mentalities. And someone was telling me the other day that there is this woman that they know that does courses. British fashion companies on how to work in Italy. Wow. Instead of learning Italian, you go and learn how to work with Italians. Really? I would much rather hire a couple of Italians than take a class to learn how to deal with Italians. That's crazy. It gets so often, and it's not translation, like direct translation, it's loss in kind of... because we have such different mindsets. Yeah, like translating what you actually want to be made. What you actually, yeah. And the fact that they're not being rude to you. How to tell an Italian person who's been doing this job for 50 years that they did it wrong and they have to change it. Yes. And an English person says that and they just go... No. And then it's over. And then you're like, fuck, what do I do? What do I do? We spent a lot of money on these samples. What do we do? Shoe is shoe. I don't fix. No, no. So, okay, if you're Italian and you live in London, where do you go for holiday? Don't tell me Spain. Ah, yes. I do. What's wrong with Spain, Chris? I'm joking. I'm joking. I just, the British are known for taking over Spain with their pasty, their pasty skin. Yeah. So I, I haven't got pasty skin. That's good. Um, I go, usually I'll fly to Italy and then I fly to Spain because. um easily i can you know i love it and it's amazing but in small doses so it's so you're saying it's easier to smuggle drugs and from italy into spain versus going straight from the other way around got it okay i'm not sure no no i think it's probably better the other way okay yeah actually no you're right you're right just thinking about it i think you you'll get less yeah you'll get through the

The Italian border is much easier, I would have thought. So when you were in London in the 90s, in that world, big rave culture and everything like that, were you also running off to Ibiza back then? Yeah, and I still do. I love going to Ibiza. Do we bring the kids for that trip or not so much? Yeah, so we all go now. What's the point of going to Ibiza with your children? She's like, someone's got to drive. Yeah, exactly. You're like, all right, Giancarlo, you know how to drive a stick. You're like, this motherfucker's making beats. He's driving me around. Yeah, just park it up front. It'll be a while. Yeah, do you guys go to the rave together? No, I don't really like going out anymore, unless I have to. In your heyday, though, what are we looking at? Five nights a week? No, I mean... I did, yeah, when I was super young. I already had it out of my system by the time I was like 24. Okay. But like back then you were in, you were like in Madchester, like acid house, like waving kind of world. Yeah. Okay. So it's going to be out of your system because that's kind of like, where do you go from there? That's the peak. Yeah, yeah. So I got my first job when I was like 22, I think. And by then I... I'm quite a workaholic, so by then I've already kind of stopped going out. I mean, I'd go out, but it'd be more like skate things and like, you know, people's party. You were focusing on the bag at an early age. Yeah, my raving was then, yeah, very, very young. 15, 19. And now you only rave if it's a write-off, a tax write-off. Yeah. Can we expense this, Molly?

This is work-related, so just put it in that category in the spreadsheet, please. In England, you can't expense entertainment. That's really bad. What? You can. In England, you can't, no. What? Entertainment is not expensive. That's bollocks. Well, I mean... It's expensive, but it's not tax deductible. All you guys do is fucking drink. How is that possible? I know. Well, that's why. If it was deductible, then the government would be bankrupt. Yeah, they're just like, I'm not, yeah, we're not dealing with that. If they have to write off every pint, the city's going to crumble. Yeah, it's only substance. And you can't argue that you can drink all the time. I actually don't drink that much. Okay. I didn't get that British voice. That's a very British thing that us Italians do last. What are some of the British pastimes, behaviors, activities that you have adopted into your life, though? Yeah, I mean, go into the pub a little bit because you have to. Is that what your son tells you? Mom, I have to. Look, I don't even want to go. I have to. I have to. I spent three, like... Three years at St. Martin's without realizing that people were actually going to the pub at the end of the day. You mean everybody would go after class to the pub because you were Italian? They kept forgetting to invite you? Yeah. I just didn't know what was going on. I was going to raves at that point. Maybe that's what it was. Okay, do you still listen to electronic dance music from time to time, or have you kind of calmed down on that? I do, but we're more like a sort of punk family. Okay, now we're cooking with gas. Yeah, we listen to a lot of American punk as a family. I do think that one of you is into American punk. No, we both are. You both are, okay. I mean, Jason's more into... Well, actually, no, Jason's really well-rounded. I'm less well-rounded because I don't like electronic music at all, really. Yeah. But when you say American punk, do you mean from the heyday or do you mean current? Yeah, heyday. Okay. My husband's a skater. He lived in San Diego for a while. Oh, so he was a proper pro skateboarder.

And we grew the kids up on the sound of hardcore. Wow. Which is possibly why they're so dysfunctional. Yeah, what the fuck? Who are some of these hardcore bands you're talking about? I think in the car we would play something like The Descendants. Okay. I don't know, Black Flag. Wow. Circle Jack. Fugazi. Damn. That's a true... All right, so you got two kids in the back of the Range Rover, and they're listening to fucking Black Flag. Yeah. This is great. Yeah, screaming, Dad, please. I wanted to talk about sweatpants and sweatshirts. Yeah. Your No Problemo sweats have kind of become infamous. A lot of people have worn them. over the last few years you know cool people celebs all the all that stuff who has been the one person where you you open up your instagram and you see somebody wearing a no problemo sweatshirt Where you cringed and thought, like, oh, what have I done? Oh, cringed? I thought you were going to say what was the, like, hey moment. Because that would have been Charlize Theron. Oh, that's pretty. We like that. We can start with a hey moment. Yeah. A cringe moment. Like a Pete Davidson or something? Where you're like, oh, God, we've got to change things up. Oh, really? I love Pete Davidson. Yeah. I'd love him to. What exactly do you love about him? I don't know. I just kind of like him. Are you attracted? Like, do you like his look? I don't know. I just kind of like him. Why do we feel like your parents right now, Sophia? I don't know. I just do. Like, I don't know. Sophia, I just don't understand what you see in this boy. I don't know. I kind of like him. But then I'm not American, so I don't know. I was quite funny when he split up.

Kim Kardashian? With Kim. I quite liked his statement. I don't know. I just think he's quite funny. He seems like a nice person. Isn't he not? No. So you understand what all these people see in him, is what you're saying? Yeah, maybe. I don't know if I've looked into it that deeply. Sure. Let's ask a little bit of a harder question, Sophia. Yeah. Your daughter brings home Pete Davidson and says, Mom, this is my new boyfriend. How's that going to go? She's too young, so you'd be a bit Peter. Okay, I wasn't. I didn't mean. I meant metaphorical daughter. It doesn't need to be. Okay, my metaphorical daughter. No, I'll be fine. Yeah, cool. I'm fine. Cool, fine. Cool, fine. I'm not very judgmental personally. I have to say that's one thing that's quite good about me. I'm not judgmental. Yeah. So even in terms of like who I've seen and I cringe, don't really think anymore. You're fine. Well, also it's like, it's tough. I mean, you know, it's, it's, it's lying in your pockets, you know? So the bigger the, did Charlize. Do you think she bought them? I don't know. It didn't come from us, but I doubt it. Yeah, yeah. It was quite funny because she put it up, and it was when she did the film with Nicole Kidman, and it's a film about the three... I don't remember. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was about, like, Fox News. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the one. Yeah. And she wore it in the pictures, and then Nicole Kidman reposted it. It was called Bombshell. Yeah, Bombshell. Yeah, Bombshell. And people were commenting underneath, and there was all these Italian people commenting that it was spelled wrong, which was quite funny. They said, you don't say no problem, you say problema. And then people commenting again saying, it's a joke. Yeah, now that is the most infamous. That's the product. Is that something that I would love to understand where that came from? No, it's from Terminator. Oh, I thought.

Okay, sure. I thought I was going to – okay. I didn't know. I thought it might be a little more heady than that, but I'm kind of – No. It's Arnold Schwarzenegger. Terminator 2? Terminator 2? Terminator 2, I think. It's Arnold Schwarzenegger. I think he's when he's nice, so it's Terminator 2. Yeah. Yeah. And he just goes, no problemo. Okay. Well, that's great. I guess inspiration can really come from anywhere, you know? I don't know about the White Lotus thing. It felt slightly kind of, you know, is this good? Is this not good? Because the continuous picking up on her wardrobe. Yeah. Like, you know, there were so many articles on who she was, why was she wearing. So you're talking about the girl that was Jennifer Coolidge's assistant, like the young blonde girl. Yeah. Yeah. She wears it. So that's a great example of. possibly cringe moment where you're like oh maybe this is not a great look for us because everyone was dissecting how awful her outfits were and then she shows up wearing it exactly and then there was all the things of like who picked her up she was wearing a lot of like similar brands so in a way we weren't alone but that is quite you know and but I think when you have a brand you're forever fighting between you know wanting to remain cool of, you know, and then really wanting to build an empire, you know, the reality is that they can't... That's the biggest challenge ever. Yeah, they can't really coexist, or not for everyone, do you know what I mean? It's like, no. You can, is there like a ceiling in terms of how large you want to scale the brand, where you'll stop there before it becomes so uncool that you don't... love it anymore or are you just kind of we hope to get there it's difficult because i think it kind of has its own momentum so you you know you think you can control it but you can't you know it's uh it's its own thing it's already its own thing and it's still quite small well you could be like berber and just burn all your extra stock so poor people can't buy it

There are ways to do it, but they're not very... There are ways. We can talk off mic if you need to unload. They're not the only ones. They're not the only ones. Yeah, they're not the only ones. No, they're not. Wait, is that you admitting that you guys do it too? Is that why you're saying that so many words? We're way too small. Even long enough to burn, to be honest. You're like, the only time we burn our clothes is to keep warm? To keep warm when we can't pay the bills. No, I think that like... We say this all the time with podcasting, with music, or with fashion, whatever it is. You really think you can choose your audience, but you can't. Once you put something out into the world, it's not up to you anymore. And I think that that is something that takes some coming to terms with. Yeah, it's really hard. And I think a lot of people don't talk about how brands grow and how that happens. A lot of the brands around us grow through investment. We don't. We're growing organically. So the reality is that this sort of monster grows. And organic growth is even harder to contain in a way. Yeah, no, for sure. And I think you can't plan it. And also you have to, because you're growing organically, you have to follow. the money to a certain extent because you you're investing your money into your growth so you know and this become you know it's a little bit you know like technical but in a way if you have an investment you can kind of you know sort of choose what works for you and kind of push that well i think when you go organically you have to go with what's selling to then be able to to grow and you know and you have a different kind of freedom because you don't have investors you don't have anyone telling you what to do but the reality is you also you know your market is dictated by people buying it and if something's selling you're like you know do i really stop this when it's allowing me to employ all these people and to do all these other things that i enjoy doing and you know so it's a it's a difficult thing yeah but when you do it organically that's where you get

True respect from other people versus LVMH dropping off. Hey, don't. Hey, don't. Hey, look. We'll take it. I speak to Sophia when I say we'll take it. I'll say we'll take it. But you get the benefit of having an infinitely long runway where you can take risks and make more mistakes. still be able to pay your employees versus, you know, in your situation? You know, I think, I think about it a lot because obviously we get approached by people who want to invest, you know, and think about it, you know, but I think organic growth gives you a form of satisfaction that, like, someone coming in and just saying, yeah, that's, you know, 10 million pounds, what do you want to do with it? Because you're still not, you know, it's... it becomes even more daunting you know because I think like that kind of sort of straight exchange of like someone likes something that you do and they buy it it's feel it's very very humbling and kind of like you know feels every day you're kind of growing and I think it you know for a human being it feels nicer, you know, it feels like you're achieving, you know, it gives your sense of achievement. Definitely. Yeah. You don't, you don't want to go, you don't want to go mad happy route. You know what I mean? We all know, we all know what's going on over there. Yeah. And then you question things, you know, you question things, what I'm doing, is it good? You know, and if someone comes in and just gives you lots of money, you know, money, I mean, money laundry, you know, maybe it's fun, but maybe you think, you know. Was that just someone laundering money or else? Just to be clear, we'll let you launder money through How Long Gone, if anybody listening. We're down with white-collar crime. White-collar crime is good. I would totally do money laundering, but I think maybe psychology would be more upset. It makes me happy to live this way. But you said you're opening a store soon. We're opening a store, yeah. What's the plan? Where is it going to be?

So it's in Soho, and it's big, really big. And that's going to require a lot of either money, laundry, or prostitution. Or a combination. So what is the plan? Is this going to be the office and the store? No. Are you moving just the store? It's going to be a store, but it's also organized as a sort of event space, slash gallery, slash hanging out space. I think we all felt that to just open a small store was not a goal. I think to just open something that feels like more community-led and that feels like it has a place. Yeah, you kind of have to. Yeah. I just think there's a thing, though, in today's age that I feel like having a store... really just legitimizes a brand no matter how much you're selling and how many great stores you're in globally etc i think having your own space especially in like a major city yeah just just like makes it feel a lot more real to even the customer yeah you know not just your peers totally right i think you're you know you can only really have your vision within your own space and i think otherwise you're like curated all the time by someone else yeah yeah i guess like the as a space of your own you really get to show your customer who you are as a brand in other ways that you can't do on e-com you know the art that you hang in the walls the music that you play yeah and you can be in control of all that whereas you know you're the the essence photographer on e-com doesn't always shoot the way you want it to be but you just got to do it no it's true and i think it's you know it's super super important to do it and i think that is the way everyone's going nowadays but it's not going to be you know the easiest Yeah, I think I'm going forward. No, I mean, it's a terrible idea. We signed the lease on the day that, you know, December when all the markets like dropped and like the interest rates just went through the reef and we were like, No, it's okay. You'll be fine. Fashion's not affected by that stuff. You know that. Come on. No, exactly. Not at all. You know, people still want to buy really expensive clothes.

You do make some really expensive clothes. That's what I like, is that I can go scroll the website. We can get the sweatpants for $250. We can get the t-shirt for $80. But you've got the leather jacket. You have the real stuff that's more expensive, which I feel like you worked up to. Yeah, I mean, we manufacture where all the big brands manufacture their clothes. So we have our leather bags are made where all the big leather brands make their clothes. clothes and we just charge comparatively a lot less so i think yeah value that stuff and obviously we are not known for it but it does give it like i think once we're in our own store it gives it like an amazing framework you know to for people to understand that we're not just about sweatpants you know i love producing clothes that's sort of my real passion has been in in the parts you know understanding you know, the methods of production and how you produce things well. And I think, you know, that we do that well. Yeah. The other day I was checking out the leather bra. Yeah. Would you wear it? Which the leather bra I love. I don't know if it would look great on me. I kind of have a, I'm pretty wide up top. So it'd be a tough, we'd have to do like a fitting. How does a leather bra work with a sweat, with a sweaty tit? Yeah. It looks, it looks nice on top. I was like, you know who's wearing, in our new campaign, he's wearing our leather brand, looks amazing, isn't it? Who? Mia Khalifa. Oh, oh, okay, wow, Mia Khalifa, yes, star of stage and screen. She's amazing. I've met her, she's such a brilliant person, and she's been wearing her stuff, and I photographed her in the leather brand yesterday, and it looked... Very good on that. I would hope so. I might have to Google that. Yeah, I would hope so. I'll send you. I'll send you a screenshot. Great, yeah. Make sure you send Jason some. He probably already has a folder of screenshots, but we can add to it. Yeah, it's funny because you type in Mia Khalifa bra and there's just, you know, 17,000 photos to wade through. It's going to take a while, so talk amongst yourselves. It's going to take a while.

Yeah, I don't know when this is coming out. When is this coming out, the podcast? Tomorrow. Oh, okay. Is it? Yeah. Oh, okay. I didn't know that. No pressure. No pressure. No pressure, but it does come out tomorrow. That's actually, I think our collaboration, the Aries How Long Gone, is no pressure in the no problemo font. I just ideated that. So we'll be in touch. And if you decide to not collaborate with us, we will just do it anyway. Just a gentleman's agreement just to let you know that will happen. Yeah, we don't really care. I'm at that point now with one of my collaborations where I just said, well, I think we should come up with it anyway, even if you guys don't like it. I love it. Yeah, strong arming. Yeah, I love it. I'm not enough. I love it. I'm cooler than you. Well, speaking of collab. I love it. Speaking of collaborations. Can you name a brand that you said no to? No, probably not many. She's like, no, we've said yes to all of them. I don't know what you mean. No, we said yes to everyone. Okay. No, maybe just timing-wise, there's a few. But I think any brand that's kind of... big you kind of can do something with something cool with i think as long as they they're prepared to take this that's why as long as they give you artistic yeah i mean people are coming yeah which they don't always no but if people are coming to you like the new balance stuff has been such a home run like i wear those shoes still all the time the original pair the neon pair i love those i love those it's a great but i mean i think that that's a perfect like you know i i think that they do a lot of collaborations now. Half of them are bad. And then, you know, there's five or 10 a year that are really good. And I think that you guys keep it funky. It was fun. It was really fun. And actually with them, it was quite easy. I had to write a letter, but it was quite easy to convince them to go eventually for the whole unbalanced team, like theme, which will be a bit good. But I do find myself in collaboration writing these really long letters saying, I think.

You know, it's okay to use the, you know, whatever, like, awful thing we've decided to inflict on the collaborators. You know, if you look at it. Look, guys, this is, look, I know this seems crazy and ugly, but we got to do it. Like, it's good. Trust me. It's a good idea. Everyone hates it, but I think it's going to be a good. I mean, we're in the, you know, we're just trying to convince this company that putting pills all over us. Pills. Yeah, like you're creating a pattern that's pills? A pattern of pills. I think that's a great idea. Ryan Parsons style. That was kind of my idea. Sophia, speaking of pills, sometimes on our podcast, we will ask a guest if they're fun, cool, and up for a laugh like you are, what their top three of all time favorite prescription pills are. Oh, my God. Well, I have to say that at the top, they're all the, are they called the pans? What are the pans? We don't know what that means. There's a pan. Oh, the pans. And there's lots of pans. So if it ends with pan... If it ends with pan, it's great. That's a good... Okay, that's a great takeaway from this episode. Three drops of a pan is like, you know, and no jet lag. Okay, this is... My dad's a doctor, so we got quite pure pans. Okay, so you have a direct line. That's good to know. Tamazepan, drazepan... Tamazepan, drazepam... I'm a pan! Yeah, I like that. It's like looking at the wine list. Like, here's our reds, here's our whites, here's our pans. If there's anything you had a question about, just let me know. That's good. Okay. So at the top of Mount... Pillmore. Pans. Reign Supreme. But they come liquid, so it drops. Oh, okay. Now, are you putting them in your eyes or just in your mouth like normal? No, so you put in a little bit of water. Oh, I see. Okay, like a tincture style. That's very popular with marijuana here in California. Tincture style, yeah. I'll do a little oil of oregano if I have a bit of a frog in my throat, you know, stuff like that. I actually had this.

terrible experience last week where I had really bad back and my friend gave me a tincture saying oh this is really great and you should put it on your back directly on your back and it looked like some kind of like gloop style ointment okay I just said that's not gonna do anything I so he was like oh you can just take it and he gave me two tiny drops of this this ointment and I literally never been as stoned I think It was horrific. That was the highest you've ever been. It was the highest I've ever been. It was horrible. And you've been going to Ibiza since the 90s. Yeah, yeah. It was horrible. Like, really, really, I had to, like, face the, you know, like, the family dinner and everything feeling completely, like, yeah, detached from reality. And I still don't know what was in it because he just said something really medical. I mean, I can't even imagine, like, I've been way too high at a, friends dinner or something like that and i am just chewing my fingernails just so stressed out but if i'm in that situation with like my children looking at me oh my god i had to tell him i came out i just had to tell him i just i'm really sorry i don't know what he's giving me but this is not good and it did it was like that situation where everything that you say sounds wrong you know like where your confidence is just destroyed like To nothing. Sorry, guys. I'm going to take my dinner upstairs. I'm going to watch Love Island for five hours. Don't talk to me. Mom needs some mom time. Mom needs some mom time. I'm going to go upstairs. Don't knock. I'm going to be in there. Don't leave me alone. I actually watched Bernie. Bernie Madoff. Oh, yeah. I haven't watched that yet. He's one of my heroes, so I need to catch up. That's one of my favorite stoner movies. If you love him, you've got to. Because it's like, it's... Well, I love him partly because you're familiar with Belgian shoes, I'm sure. No. So Belgian shoes are kind of like a New York institution. It's like a store uptown, and it was always like the Upper East Side, like very rich guy shoe. It's like a slipper with a tiny little bow on it, and there's like one place you can get the... They've been obviously like all the... I know the shoes. Yeah, so it's like that. It's like a velvety loafer kind of thing. But you can get them in all kinds. You can get them in ostrich and leather and velvet. You can get everything.

thing. Just like one of your Birkin bags, Sophia. Exactly. If you really got the bread, they keep your size on file and you order all the new... materials and colors every season, blah, blah, blah. So when Bernie, when Bernie went to jail, there was this famous picture of his Belgian collection that was up for auction. And it was, you know, like a hundred pairs or something. It was like a hundred pairs. He had every color, every, you know, so it's, I only have a couple of pairs because I haven't stolen enough money yet. So Chris, what are some things about, about Bernie that you like? Just the shoes, really. Okay. And the fact that he... He is known as one of the most evil humans of all time. He has the most money. It's $60 billion, right? Yeah. I mean, he's... No, I think it's more that he... I think it's like the whole thing is... It's awful, obviously. But the fact that people react to stealing money worse than they do like mass killings. is something that's also very interesting to me as far as our society goes. Yeah, I agree. I know he stole money from Kevin Bacon, and that does suck. Don't get me wrong. But we have some real atrocities going on in this world that I would think demand a little more attention and maybe even empathy. But that's just me. But he's got great shoes. If you think about it, the banks steal your money all the time. He was quite... If you listen to him, I think he thought he was doing good. Yeah, no, he definitely brainwashed. I mean, that's what people like that do. They've talked themselves in. He convinced himself that he was Peter Pan or something, which is definitely not the case. Yeah, but I think if you think about money, especially now with cards and stuff, it's so abstract that the fact that he actually wasn't investing that money, but he thought he was somehow keeping it safe for people. Makes more sense. When you hear an interview, you start thinking, oh, my God. He actually did, you know, he believed that that was the right thing to do. It's weird. Totally. Now, the question is, do you think the family knew or do you think they didn't know? I think it's really hard. I'm only on the first. I only watched the first episode.

So I'm, like, looking forward to watching the other ones. The FBI is asking that same question right now, Chris. No, I mean, I just lived in New York when this was all happening. It was so just insane. It was just nonstop, like, coverage. And I truly believe the wife didn't know. I don't know if the sons – obviously, the sons were involved in the business, so it's a little dicier. But, like, I definitely don't think the wife knew, and I think that's the most tragic part to me. a little bit is like, can you imagine living that life for 70 years and then basically being like, I have to live in a hovel in South Florida now and I was lied to, you know what I mean? Yeah, no, I mean, it's terrible. Yeah, it's terrible. I think, because I don't think he, in a sense, he knew, I think it wasn't until like everything, you know, like collapsed that he was sort of, and he was made to give the money back that he realized. You know, it's a little bit like, what was it called? Northern Rock. It was like the Northern Rock collapse, but like a million times more. I mean, bands were kind of doing a similar thing in a way. No, totally. Yeah, yeah. No, it's a blueprint. I mean, there's a way that this works. Yeah. Sorry. No, I think that he was doing two different businesses. That's what comes out from the documentary. He was running two different businesses. So whether, you know, because he was. so happy and everyone thought he was doing so well people didn't question it i don't know i mean it's weird it was the perfect crime until it wasn't yeah it's like when we finally open our how long gone coffee shop that's cash only we're gonna have to have two separate sets of books you know what i mean one one for us one for the irs it's going to be a whole thing you know how it is you're a small business hunter sophia you know how it is yeah yeah exactly But I'm looking forward to seeing exactly what happens because it is quite intriguing. It's a great story. It's a great story. All right, Sophia, we really thank you for joining us on How Long Gone Today. It was a pleasure. Thank you.

Lovely to meet you. Hopefully one day meet you in real life. I was going to tell you, we're going to be in London at the end of the month doing a few things. I'll make sure you get the invites. Oh, my God. But do come and visit us, too. We'll cover you in no problemos. We can be... Okay. We need the... Yeah, I need some... I have been eyeing some sweatpants, so I'll definitely follow up on that. I'll take the varsity jacket, but yeah, thank you. You've got... You've got the vest. I'll put it aside. thank you so much that was so much fun of course less scary thanks thank you When you're a maintenance engineer in a beverage manufacturing plant, you keep production lines moving and quality on track because there is no room for slowdowns. With Grainger's fast selection of high-quality motors, sensors, belts, and hard-to-find parts, you can get what you need fast and all in one place so nothing gets in the way of getting the job done. Call 1-800-GRAINGER, click grainger.com, or just stop by. Grainger, for the ones who get it done.